FROM ANDREW DRUMMOND
BANGKOK, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 10 2010
Keith Burbage wanted his money back
This is the face of British retired executive Keith Burbage. The former director of ‘The Stationery Office’ was beaten after pulling out of a house purchase deal in Thailand.
Burbage, 56, now retired, had decided to fight back after losing a ₤40,000 deposit on a ₤200,000 new house in the ‘upmarket’ resort of Hua Hin, 100 miles south of Bangkok.
His beating comes after another retired house-buyer was paralysed for the rest of his life after being gunned down outside his ‘dream home’.
Today Burbage said’: “I am in hiding and in fear for my life. I am a victim of a property fraud, but here if you fight back you can die.”
Burbage, said he survived because passers-by came to his aid as he was being beaten with what appeared to be a baseball bat. He says he has little confidence in the police.
Witnesses say his attacker, who arrived in a black car, had been waiting for hours.
Burbage, former Managing Director (Services) for the TSO, quit his Fulham home three years ago taking early retirement.
In Hua Hin, where the King of Thailand has his summer palace here, ₤200,000 would have bought him a luxury house with pool, and, to Burbage it seemed paradise.
The resort boasts top quality spas, miles and miles of white sand beach fringed by coconut palms, some of the best golf courses in Thailand, and many trendy restaurants.
“I was captivated by it,” he said.
But what is not mentioned in the glossy brochures, is that the ‘ retirement’ property business has been invaded by down market ‘businessmen’ from Britain and Europe. The only thing they have in common is that none have been in the property business before and many have a colourful past.
“International mafia targets foreigner who was suing over land deal” was the headline on the Thai language Hua City News last week when Burbage was found in a pool of blood outside the white gates of the condominium he was renting.
Burbage attacked at the gates of this condo
This story never made the local English language press Hua Hin Today and the Hua Hin Observer, both are owned by foreign property developers.
Today (Wed) Burbage is suing for the return of his cash in the local provincial court: “I am trying to work out how to get to the court without being ambushed on the way. I am in fear for my life,” he said.
He had put down the deposit with a European developer, only to find out later he had been palmed off with a home on a different plot 500 square metres smaller. He asked for his money back. The company refused and said Burbage: “I was warned not to mess with people with connections.
“There is nobody protecting people from the foreign mafia here, least of all the police. The investigation is going nowhere,” he added.
Donald Whiting now paralysed
Donald Whiting, 65, an ex-US marine is also in hiding with his partner Dolly Samson.
First Whiting’s car was firebombed, then he was gunned down outside his home, after he publicly complained about his property developer, not the same as Burbage’s.
Napatsorn Oxley, known as Sarah, the Thai wife of British property developer Darren Oxley, has been charged with hiring assassins to kill him.
Police have also arrested the three would be assassins, who, police claimed, said she paid the equivalent of £600 pounds to fire-bomb Whiting’s car and £2,000 pounds to kill him. He was shot five times outside his home. In hiding Whiting is paralysed and needs 24 hour care.
Those who allegedly plotted to kill him have got bail and he has no witness protection.
“It’s a living nightmare,” he said. “Those with money can just walk free in Thailand.”
Darren Oxley
Darren Oxley is on the run from Sheffield Crown Court. He fled bail in 2001, on charges of conspiracy to supply drugs.
Another British property group ran by South Londoners promoted the Hua Hin Country Club, using the figure of England and Chelsea footballer Joe Cole, and took over ₤1 million in deposits off plan.
The Hua Hin Country Club is still being promoted on the internet….and still not one brick has been laid.
A British Embassy spokesman advised potentional property buyers in Thailand to heed the Foreign Office Travel Advisory.
“People have been sold properties which do not exist, have trouble getting ownership papers, and in once case we know the same property was sold to 12 different clients. Going through the courts can take years.”
Hua Hin the new Pattaya for incidents, luckily there are few high rises to jump off.
Seriously how long before someone puts a stop to this cr*p, how do people continously rip people off without any real backlash (TIT)
Can you name name the Developer, from the ending of the piece it looks like once again the blame is directed at a Brit check your facts with the victim in question I think you will find he is not.
Thank you Warren. There is nothing in the article above to suggest a Brit is behind this. If there is then I have clarified this now.
I do not need to get back to the victim to ask with whom he had a dispute. I am reluctant to name the author of this incident before the police do. But what I could probably do is list all the property developers who have cases pending in Prachuap Khiri Khan Provincial Court if that would be of help to you. The fact that the cases are listed would of course suggest they could not come to any accommodation with those who bought property from them.
I know for a fact that the developer in question about this incident is not British, he comes from ****** so like Warren says you should get your facts correct before you start pointing fingers at the wrong person, in fact it seems to me that you have a personal vendetta against the British developer Darren Oxley.
Peter Best: There is no vendetta against Darren Oxley. I don’t have the time or inclination. He’s one story gone, plus a mention here. Just one doll in a cabbage patch full of similar ones apparently. Have to check what these people are up to though. It comes with the turf, existent or non-existent, as in Hua Hin Country Club.
If you wish to point out a wrong fact in the above report please feel free to do so, otherwise lets not waste each other’s time.
Andrew, I would ge grateful to see a list of developers with pending cases and also to know the name of the development in question as I think we should all be aware of which to avoid. I am new to your site but appreciate the work you do. Charlie
With two of the posters above you can almost smell the fishy odor of damage limitation. Whereas they may well have no connection to the above case, it seems almost as if the last thing they want is ANY criticism of the industry on their patch. Listen, I couldn’t care a toss as to the exact location these various scumbags come from, since I knoiw only too well that Thailand has long been the self-imposed Botany Bay of ‘First World’ trash. Property developers who want to cut these people some slack, on the grounds that their industry needs to maintain a ‘beautiful’ image, are also a hazard to the rest of us. They are also yet another very good reason to stay away from the grockle-ghettoes of Chiang Mai, Pattaya, Hua Hin and Phuket.
There are hardly any architects capable of building a good house here anyway. (They would mostly be better employed icing wedding cakes, since they don’t even know the absolute basics of fundamental stuff like designing to suit the climate.) Added to which the houses are mostly jerry-built by underpaid slaves who couldn’t care a toss about good work. (Why should they?) Go look at those estates that are supposed to be prestigious, when they are about 5 years old - when it is easier to spot all the developer bodges. So much for the beauty, which is usually only render and paint-job deep. When the crappy paint starts to fade and peel off, they look about as beautful as the tenement backs of 40 year old shophouse developments.
Other property developers should be warned that by suppressing news like this, they are ALSO doing their bit to promote lawlessness and thuggery.
Keith Burbage’s injuries are truly shocking. There must surely be a clear sense of revulsion amongst readers to this site that yet another brutal attack has been carried out on an innocent foreigner in this country.
The facial injuries are horrific and the circumstances of the offence are truly quite frightening. Law and order don’t appear to exist in Hua Hin - or anywhere else in Thailand for that matter - if you happen to be an aggrieved property buyer up against its unscrupulous and violent criminal mafia. The totally corrupt and inept police forces in these tourist havens are often - for all intents and purposes - just as corrupt. There is often absolutely no legal recourse for the poor, hapless victim.
Foreign embassies and consulates in Thailand are fond of issuing travel advisories and warnings to their citizens whenever
there is the likelihood of a political protest - even though the chances of their citizens being affected - threatened with physical violence - outside of a few hotspots is remote in the extreme.
Why don’t they appear to show the same degree of concern when it comes to its citizens - Keith Burbage and Donald Whiting to name but two - facing much greater physical danger and harm as a consequence of having been unlucky enough to engage in simple - but bad business transactions here. (including such mundane things as the hire of jet-skis)
Perhaps an on-line petition or an online letter-writing campaign or even a letter - a statement - handed to an embassy official by a group of concerned foreign residents drawing attention to the plight of these innocent victims and urging their respective governments to do more might be a good idea.
I personally would be only too pleased to be part of such a representation as would the majority - if not all - of your
readers if truth be told.
interesting post’s from the colonel & peter m.
it seems the residents of hua hin are either unaware,to scared to comment, or don’t really care about the most recent attack.
there is no report in the local rags & no mention of the incident on the hhad forum.
surely it would be classed as local news wouldn’t it??:?
as for some of these clowns being referred to as a ‘property developers’? :shock:, do me a favour!!.
they’re just chancers & bullies, making a quick buck out of vulnerable & weak people.
the properties they produce are overpriced & are generally substandard.
i wouldn’t rent one, never mind buy one.
Stan: The foreigners in Hua Hin do not have a voice unfortunately, never have. But I can understand why they want to keep their heads down. As for HHAD (Hua Hin After Dark) I guess they may be more concerned about foreign troublemaking ’so called investigators’ as in this link :-). You can’t make it up!
http://www.huahinblog.com/2009/02/04/hua-hin-shooting-sparks-bogus-blame/
Peter M. I echo your sentiments. I for one would be happy to join a petition or any other idea to attempt to pressure the embassies to pay more attention to their citizens. As a Brit who lives here I get sick and tired of all the local news referring to “Thai citizens” as if we tax paying long term residents don’t exist. Then some clown coes along and says we are all ‘guests’ - please! A guest is someone who is entertained not someone who pays his way and is even expected to apy more than a Thai citizen…
Sadly, I hear the replies already form the MTTT brigade (More Thai Than Thai) telling me I have a choice and should live elsewhere if I don’t like it, as if voicing any constructive criticism is wrong…
However, my over-riding concern is that an embassy such as the UK embassy in Bangkok really don;t care. They have shown the least concern of all embassies in times of difficulty such as when the airport was closed by the PAD so I suspect they would not even read anything given to them. Their agenda so to do as little as possible until they are posted to their next location! Have they actually given any concrete helkp to anyone recently? Please do tell…
Andrew, HHAD (Hua Hin After Dark) is no less than the worst run forum/website I have seen and also with the most boring content. It actually sums up Hua Hin in its own way - full of ignorant petty people either online or in the flesh. Of all the ‘grockle-ghettoes’ as Colonel B so aptly put it, Hua Hin in my opinion is the worst. The road out is lined with 1,000 THB notes so desperate is everyone to get out of there!
Peter Marshall; For your idea to succeed you’ll need to contact the THAI Embassy in your country of origin & let the flack roll downhill. Writting to an Embassy in Bkk is pointless because;
a) It’s not their concern &
b) If villian & victim are from the same country who do they believe/assist?
Given your propensity for snide criticisms of other journalists who make mistakes, I think I should point out that the people arrested for the attack on Donald Whiting are not “assassins” (”Police have also arrested the three assassins …”), but “would-be assassins”. That is unless you have proof they actually killed someone, in which case you are required to say so. Then they’d be “professional/convicted assassins/killers”. A journalist of your experience should not have allowed that to slip through because you have now tried, judged and convicted them. I just hope the sub editors who handled this story picked up your mistake.
i agree with you andrew about hua hin, been there a few times.
i quite like the place & have never had any problems there at all, but then i’m not a retiree looking to buy a property there.
if i was looking, i wouldn’t use any of the agents anyway.
it’s such a small place, that an incident such as this would be well aired on the grapevine.
i was just a little surprised that it didn’t make the forum as a story but equally not surprised in the slightest that it didn’t make it to the local rags.
more bad publicity concerning the property market in hua hin ?? oh dear we can’t have that!!!!!!!
I agree, a petition - which I would support - would need to be submitted to the FO in London.
For obvious reasons embassy and consular staff work with hands tied while on foreign soil.
And in London, the petition would be reviewed in perspective and unfortunately there are bigger fish to fry regarding relations with Thailand ( and other countries)
However, a petition would be made public in the Uk. That would be an effective start. As I say, I would support it. And as one poster said, so would many more
Dex?: Corrected on a point of fact as Donald Whiting is of course still alive. I never criticise journalists who make genuine mistakes. Nor do I ever criticise them snidely.
But if I may allude to Colonel Blimp’s comment about the ‘Botany Bay of First World Trash’ I have to say it is NOT ONLY the property business which is affected. When they turn up on local rags a little irony is sometimes called for.
There is no law of sub-judice in Thailand by the way, but I am sure you are as aware of that, as you are of the British justice system. There is no jury here to influence.
You may have noticed for instance the format of police press conferences when they announce an arrest. Almost everything they say is prejudicial.
You will get criticism of police here however.
Finally of course, if there is another side to this story, for instance that Darren Oxley’s wife was set up, as were the three would be assassins, then they, or Darren Oxley on their behalf, is welcome to put forward that point of view. And indeed he has been invited to do so. In an earlier post he does keep pointing to correspondence and a feud between Whiting and a local Greek property developer and newspaper publisher.
ps: Boy I bet you can tell me a thing or two about being snide
Ron Hay: This from a circular today issued by British Embassy
“The security of British citizens resident in or visiting Thailand is top priority for the Embassy”
Its in the context of the red shirts though, probably does not cover Hua Hin. But the Ambassador or Deputy Head of Mission could nip down to Hua Hin by appointment with the local police chief, inform the local press, and very politely express his concern. Or, well he could go to another dinner instead.
Andrew,the security & safety of foreign nationals during mass civil disobedience cannot be compared to the day to day policing of a provincial backwater. Duristiction for the latter lies elsewhere as you well know.
Ron Hay: Of course.
Hi
I live in Hua Hin, money talks, you have no redress with the Poice, they are lazy and will do what the money tells them to do.
HHAD is run by money from developers and ******,yes it is the worst Forum for info, the best for mis-information.
Almost all developers have courtcases or un happy customer’s.
PLEASE contact me for info about Hua Hun.
Dear Andrew
I would like to argue, regarding these interesting Hua Hin threads, that the truth - as always - is yet again the real victim here. It seems to be that more damage is being done to Hua Hin than good.
There are many different ways to present the truth. Or should that be ‘re-present’ the truth? It all depends on which ’side’ you are batting for. Journalists, as conduits for information, should ideally be striving to shed light on both sides of a story with an impartial stance. That is, if impartiality is something that the journalist believes in. As far as Hua Hin is concerned, maybe it is not.
Unfortunately, ‘newsmaking’ is usually rather more lucrative for most journalists whom are less preoccupied in presenting the often far less glamorous truth and more interested in re-presenting and forecasting the as yet uncovered truth: maybe why such loaded terms like ‘firebombs, ‘drugs’,'gunned down’ and ‘assassins’ have been liberally thrown around your story like confetti.
I am sure that most people have come to realise and understand the age-old adage - via the media’s relentless penchant for ‘news’ - that a story isn’t a story unless it’s newsworthy. Of course, to make it newsworthy, it must be sensationalized.
It goes without saying, there is never an excuse for violence and I for one do not condone it in any way shape or form. If people have been wronged, justice should be served, and the general public should be made aware of whom they are – but only after they have been found guilty, not before.
The majority of people who work in Hua Hin’s property sector are respectable and honest and are by no means ‘downmarket’. Furthermore, for your information, most of us do not have a ‘colourful past’ either. I, for one, do not appreciate these unqualified sweeping generalizations. After studying media communications for some time, I see that some of the journalists’ favourite weapons are still foremost: loaded terms and a complete lack of depth and impartiality. Money in - truth out
Nevertheless, and in conclusion, I do, however, certainly agree that the realm of property developers and property agents could be improved via much-needed legislation in some areas. Nevertheless, I do not agree with scaremongering tactics that have yet to be founded in any evidence whatsoever and moreover, why Hua Hin is singled out for special attention.
Where are stories of all the hundreds, probably thousands, of satisfied clients that have bought property without hindrance in Hua Hin? Where are all the stories of the happy endings and countless recommendations? Maybe, it is not quite what the general public enjoy consuming while enjoying their breakfast. And, moreover, maybe a happy ending is not quite lucrative enough for what some journalists enjoy writing about…
ANDREW DRUMMOND
Dear Simon,
Some letters are worth including purely for their sheer pomposity and twit value. Yours takes the biscuit.
A guy’s car is fire-bombed, he is then paralysed for life by three would be assassins. Another guy is severely beaten. Had they not bought into property in Hua Hin this would never have happened.
These stories do not need sensationalising. What should happen before I write a story? Shouild someone by hung, drawn and quartered? Deep fried with chilli and served up in the local restaurant? Boiled and served up as haggis?
Nobody has said there are no estate agents or people in the property business in Hua Hin with integrity.
I am sure there are some. But where are they? They should be doing something if its their business being ruined. The answer is probably because they are scared to do anything and wish, like you, to remain anonymous.
Ones’ with integrity would not be writing letters like this for sure. I have spoken to people from the respectable international agencies. They are aware and agree there is a problem.
These cases reported here are not isolated cases. Cases of fraud are widespread. I could not give a flying **** about those good deals which have gone down. I bet you cannot count those involving foreigners in the thousands. but please let me know which ones they are if you so wish. The way things are going they will be of news value soon.
Personally I would not recommend any foreigner to buy in Hua Hin unless its with long established ‘Thai’ companies. I would certainly not buy a house from an anonymous foreigner who has done media studies - whatever that is nowadways. It’s a new degree which was invented long after I trained as a journalist, and one which you obviously did not complete.
I certainly would not recommend people buying property in Hua Hin on the basis that there are some good guys with integrity down there in the property business.
This is about cash and greed or to quote you ‘Money in - truth out’ but on a much grander scale, robbing people of their retirement savings. The market has been over-inflated as much by respectable people in the business as the crooks. There have been plenty of hyped up features in the Bangkok newspapers and glossies about ‘good’ developments in Hua Hin, which have turned out to be fraudulent.
Why dont you ask them why dont they write about the bad side? Oh, you’re in the property business!
As for your suggestion that the ‘realm of property developers and developers could be improved by new legislation’. Get real Simon! These guys want to go to court. It can take years after appeals for a judgment to be enforced, if indeed it can. They can do anything and everything but it usually includes ‘Sorry no money left’, if indeed they are still around by then. But of course you knew that didn’t you?
In the meantime I await with interest your ‘uncovered truths’ but even more so I also await your assessment on how lucrative you think it is for me to write such stories. And if you know of any complainants getting their money back that would be interesting too.
Simon
What you describe is exactly the problem. So you have studied media..How does that make you an expert in the property development field? In europe, to call yourself a real estate broker, you need to be licenced and must have gone through training in that particular field. I know many westerners selling property in Thailand, and not a single one of them was in the property business back home. None.
Almost all of them are small fry wheeler and dealers seeing a chance to make big bucks selling property in Thailand.
I have to agree with the last couple of comments from Andrew and Valkyrie. I have lived and worked in Thailand for 10 years now in Bangkok and I have seen many property frauds and problems over the years in the country as a whole but by far the most in the property business have been in Hua Hin. I have known many friends cheated by developers down there so in the end I now recommend no-one buy there.
For a weekend eating seafood and strolling in the old lanes, Hua Hin is fine but not for much else. I now recommend anyone who wants a weekend place out of Bangkok to go down the Eastern Seaboard and that’s saying something as it is far from ideal in many ways - but it sure beats Hua Hin.
At least there are reasonably priced properties built by more respectable builders for every budget and taste. Hua Hin, on the other hand as far as I can see, has two distinct markets but both are over-hyped:
- The Thais buy their holiday condos on the beach, normally actually before Hua Hin at Cha-am or after Hua Hin at Pranburi. There are larger developers offering some quality and value but it is still overwhelmingly over-priced in my opinion compared to elsewhere.
- Foreigners tend to be attracted to villas (with a private or shared pool) or something similar and this is where the problem starts as (nearly) all of these developments are built by the less qualified and less reputable builders and sold by the even less qualified and less reputable real estate agents. There are all sorts of mines to tread over from the fact you can’t own the land in your name, contracts will be in Thai language you can’t understand, dis-reputable lawyers abound (there is no code here as in the west so lawyers can be and frequently are crooked), builders regularly go bust, workmanship is poor and un-managed, design is often poor and impractical and of course simple greed and dis-honesty are everywhere with people not in the business for the long term but just to earn a quick buck.
From all the problems I have heard about the issues are generally also not easy to resolve as the developers and agents use bullying tactics to avoid fixing things or to honour contracts. As already mentioned by others, the local police are totally useless and are often bought off already.
Personally, I find Hua Hin one of the most dreary places around hence I have never been tempted to buy there, thankfully, but I know from those who have lived there and still live there that it is also full of very petty and small-minded people in general as well as being pricey and hot as hell!
Each to his or her own but I think the best advice ever for Hua Hin is as it is for Thailand in general - rent before you buy! All is never quite what it seems… especially not as in the glossy brochure in the case of Hua Hin.
Andrew, your last post was absolutely spot on. Have you noticed the complete lack of compassion for the victims from the local newspapers and forums which are owned, used and controlled by those only interested in talking up the Hua Hin property business. To them the victims “had only themselves to blame” and no one should voice concern because no one has yet been found guilty!
What a load of absolute crap from the previous poster Simon, that’s the typical kind of low life opinions these con merchants spread around town. They have zilch, zero - no compassion for the victims and while victims lives are ruined, violence is used to shut people up.
The so-called local newspapers and local forum invite gullible westerners to buy into paradise. Every time I read the much-used slogan in the local glossy magazines “live your dreams in paradise” I always think they should add “and let us turn your dreams to nightmares”
The local forum (HHAD) and local magazines pretending to be newspapers are controlled by unqualified low life who make their living conning people to part with their retirement savings and buy into their over priced amateur built ghettos. HHAD pretend they do not make money selling houses but most of it’s revenue comes from the farang property mafia.
Once gullible customers have parted with their cash buying into their dreams of paradise, reality soon sinks in, and they realize they have been dealing with unqualified unscrupulous Real Estate agents and are now controlled by the bully boy tactics of the property developers. Once they realize the huge mistake they have made, these poor customers (mostly retirees) can’t sell their houses and many are forced into paying higher costs for water and electricity by the bully developers.
There is a dark cloud of fear pervading over Hua Hin. The residents dare not talk badly about those who make their money in the property market.
One wonders if the victim was in negotiation with the Bubble?
The property shysters in Hua Hin and elsewhere have almost total police protection. The Bubble has connections to one General in Bangkok and his PR man is (was ?) the ex chief of police in Hua Hin.
Poor Mr Burbage has his work cut out and I wouldn’t think the likely trouble is worth the candle.
Quite why people don’t simply rent and invest their lump sums wisely is beyond me.
I agree with all statements after numb nuts Simon.
Would be intersting to see if these rip off estate agent have any qualifications whatsover with regard to Estate Agency, could we not get immigration involved.
I wonder if “Hot Properties Estate Agency” are involved with this, they were with the guy that was shot, a picture shows Darren Oxley and others outside the guys house with one of the “Hot Properties 4×4’s”, may be a conection.
What has Hua Hin Country Club got to do with Oxley and the beatings? Are they connected?
Andrew Drummond No Sha, that is another scam. You need to look up the Hua Country Club website and go to where it says progress or ongoing construction pictures and also go to the gallery. You’ll see pretty much everyone involved and also Joe Cole, the footballer. The people involved were the Phuket based British (Essex/London) Lersuang Group,( Eric Salih, Selwyn Casey) who are having big problems in Phuket, and Hua Hin’s very own Colin Devonshire of the Observer Group, bless his cotton socks. Lots of stuff on Lersuang in the Phuket Gazette and others.
Interestingly Joe Cole was also taken down to Father Joe’s Human Development Centre in Klong Toey, Bangkok. The Joe Cole trip I understand was organised by Danny Matthews, former sales director of HH Country Club for Lersuang. He is quite adamant that he was taken for a ride and tried to organise a rescue package but Lersuang kept all the cash and have given nothing back.
Could there be a connection? Don’t know. But Darren Oxley did send me an email saying: “I’m sure Father Joe would be very proud of you “. He knows I know Father Joe. I believe he was being sarcastic.
Of course many of these guys know each other.
Danny Matthews! Now there’s a name from the past I have heard come up several times. He was the artist selling franchises for Thailand Property Shops or something with another fellow called Maurice De Jong I think and then they evidently pushed one franchisee too far and he came down to Hua Hin and shot Mr De Jong point blank in the legs. I think Danny then was just the sales manager for Lersuang after that as he was down on his luck having spent all the proceeds from his business but he did avoid the bullets. It all goes on in Hua Hin by the looks of it!
CW: Some of these guys you do not need to be around if they have had a couple of beers! For De Jong I think you have to look up the Beach Resort on Sam Roi Yod!..and check out the prices! The kid gloves treatment given to the Lersuang Group by the Phuket Gazette is classic as Eric Salih tries to explain how he overstretched himself. For DM a glass window at Siam Properties. Hua Hin, come to mind. Danny Matthews says he tried to organise a rescue package, and as he has the names of all the victims and if he is as angry as he says then this can probably be taken a little bit further.
Andrew, sounds like you have your finger well on the pulse of goings on in Hua Hin. My knowledge is far from complete but several stories made their way to Bangkok about what you have described. Not just glass windows but gunshots, 4×4 head-on attacks and more but it seems the Siam Property window was two way glass if you get my drift and DMs attention on Siam was not totally unfounded. Maybe you can give us a full report on the HH real estate scene one day!
That would be good, Estate Agents in Hua Hin need to be sorted, they are as bad as the Property Developers, both terms used tongue in cheek.
Anyone buying property in Hua Hin obviously do not know what is going on.
ANDREW DRUMMOND Sorry Steve. Had to do a little editing. Everybody has his time and while I am prepared to defend my own allegations, I need to check other allegations out first.
I think you’re all forgetting the biggest scammers for years in Hua Hin, the good ol’ ***** under ****** leadership. What a long list of unhappy customers and bare faced lies. What do you expect from an ex-insurance salesman.
Andrew Drummond Thanks for that. I am aware of the **** and **** . Its a pity I cannot publish the names as a list, but unfortunately….. well as they say here ’sak wan neung’.
About time attention was brought to these wide boys, whether builders or Estate Agent’s.
Would be interested to see a list of civil court cases pending, name and shame.
About time Thailand had some sort of Audit, local authority’s who have the authority to check qualifications and legal papers.
Connor: Unfortunately I need to physically get to the court. Anyone in the area?
connor said
“About time Thailand had some sort of Audit, local authority’s who have the authority to check qualifications and legal papers.”
totally agree with you.
most of these developers/agents have or had zero experience in the construction industry before they cropped up in thailand & certainly no qualifications!!!!
i’m sure not to long back, hhad had a thread going concerning some kind of regulatory body/federation being set up in h-hin for agents & developers.
it was all about codes of conduct & recommendations etc etc, the usual B-S.
not surprisingly it didn’t take off for one reason or a hundred!!!!!
Hua Hin’s property industry code of conduct. Shave your head, have a fat gut and talk with a “saff” London accent?
stan the man - I worked for the (at that time - only) local “Newspaper” in English. The rules were pretty clear: you can write about anything you like, as long as it is not bad news. Bad news was ANYTHING that could affect tourism or local (international) business in any way. It’s a “no see - no tell” policy, and as much as I KNOW this policy comes directly from the Thai Authorities, which threaten to not extend the license to publish should the articles printed make “them” look bad. Sad, but true… the only “free” media in Thailand is the Internet, and even that is being controlled by a body of the Thai government, so unwanted websites are not viewable (at least) from Thailand.
I personally knew Toby and used to hang out quite a bit with Donald, and I find it shocking that the people responsible for the death of Toby are walking the streets of Hua Hin, while it may not be surprising that at least one of the people involved in Toby’s killing was a police man. Donald is forced to hide now, so he wont get killed before the court case, while ***** drives around Hua Hin in his fancy sports car… thugs like him are just lucky they are the wolf in the sheep herd… where I come from he’d be long under the ground - street justice wise, scum like him should not be allowed to live HERE!
I like the idea of trying to get the Embassies to help us out, but honestly… we (people who live in Hua Hin) need to realize that we are on our own here. There is no help to be expected from ANYONE else but ourselves. If we don’t act and make people understand that they will not be allowed to come here and turn Hua Hin into a 2nd Pattaya.
Fake News Reporter: I deleted a name. Its not that I can’t use it. But I cannot use it in conjunction with your description of what should happen to that person
Fake News Reporter
No Balls then, what was the point in pretending to be a reporter, just selling advertising. Point is the local papers are a joke anyway.
Many foreigners selling drugs in Hua Hin, do something worthwhile and inform on them.
Steve
Andrew Drummond A now superfluous sentence has been removed as the person you refer to is no longer in the original post. Did you get out of the wrong side of bed this morning?
Hmm, I didn’t make that rule nor did I like it. As I said I worked for a “newspaper”… also, I never claimed to be a reporter, I just worked for the newspaper. I agree totally with you, the local (Thailand wide) media is biased and very selective in what they report. If it weren’t for places like this blog, operated by private people passionate about Thailand and all it’s goods and bads, you would hardly have the chance to read and discuss the things that are happening here and are not covered by the mainstream media.
Is there any place in Thailand where foreigners can purchase condo’s from respectable developers? I am sure there are but can anyone name please?
Andrew Drummond: Well I’m not taking responsibility for answering that one.
Toby
If you buy from one of the larger thai developers in BKK you can feel pretty safe.
Any developer outside of BKK in a tourist area is not to be trusted. Unless they are an investment by the big listed developers from BKK. These local companies are usually owned by some local “Big Man” that are often just former farmers or rubber plantation/tin mine owners who happened to have beach front land or land in a scenic spot, and so got wealthy fast when tourism boomed in the area.
Toby, I agree with the last poster. Basically, if you are smart follow what the Thais do themselves. You will never see them investing in “rural” developments unless theya re backed by one of the big national firms. They are mostly Thai listed companies but there are some smaller players but the key is to see where the smart money goes.
It goes on condos in popular areas like Sukhumvit for investment/rental (as a foreigner, buy only in your own name), on cheaper condos near student campuses (avoid this if you are not Thai) or on holiday homes for investment/rental in Hua Hin or Pattaya (again buy only in foreign name from a well known and big name). Re-sales are fine to buy too if the building is well managed but again only foreign name.
Basically, don’t touch anything but condos if you want to be sure and stick to BKK, Pattaya and Hua Hin - sadly, even though you get more for your money with a villa/house, you cannot own the land legally so you are open to being cheated at every step. If you must live outside of BKK, Hua Hin or Pattaya, don’t buy - only rent. Of course, many people settle in Isaan and other provinces and build a house and have a great life. That is fine but it will not be a safe investment and will only be a good idea as long as you are happy with your wife
Just my opinion but it is based on a few years of experience here…
It seems nothing much changes in Hua Hin and Thailand in general probably…
I just read on their local forum, HHAD, that another person was cheated buying a house in Cha Am, nearby. I also heard of two other people cheated recently down there.
Who knows how many more have been cheated? Someone should just nuke the whole place and start again - rotten to the core and for anyone out there buying property - BEWARE!!!